My suggestions.

Jida · 02-13-2010, 15:36

On Housing

It should not be implemented or if the structures have to be there, lock them and make them inaccessible.

Housing = safe spot, safe spots = bad.

On Portaling

Recalls need to be limited. Remove any @xxx command other than @lifestone.

Remove or make inaccessible most of the landscape portals. Leave the town portal rings but nothing else. Take out most if not all of the random portals that take you around the map. You want to get there? Hoof it.

Set every single dungeon to un-tieable. All of them, no tieing to dungeons. If you never have tied to any portals then you can use "Portal Recall" to get back to the last portal you entered (just like the old days) unless it is also set to "No Recall".

Restrict the recall spells to "Lifestone Recall", "Portal Recall", "Summon Portal 1" and "Portal Tie". Only one of each.

Remove all lifestones EXCEPT for the ones in towns. Remove the ones in AB, WeiJou, Teth, etc.

No portal gems existed at this time so it is not an issue.

The goal of this is to keep a very small population together and not spread out everywhere. If there are only a handful of lifestones and a few places you can port around to then people will interact far more often. Again, like the old days.

On Safe Zones

No timers at all. If you die you come back red, not white. There is no lifestone protection after you die. No portal timers. No housing or far away dungeons and lifestones to hide at. No 1,000 portals to everywhere, no recalls to everyplace.

On Spells/Magic

Split Pea did not ruin everything, it was Spilt Beans. The way the magic system worked was your taper rotation was based upon your Zone ID. Once this got out everyone had every spell.

To eliminate or slow down the issue (since I am sure someone will tell someone else their rotation at some point) you create a long HEX cypher to act in the same way the Zone ID did back in the day.

Research only, no scrolls. There were scrolls in the loot profile however you can either remove them or make them very rare. If you want the power then you have to put in the time.

On Money

Reduce all possible cash coming in by 1/10th and multiply the costs of things by 10x. Make money very important and not something we all end up taking for granted. Pyreals, even in the old days were easy enough to stay stocked up on.

Money should also be heavy as well as notes. Not this weightless BS they did.

On Levels

Restrict the levels to 50 and make each level 5x as much XP to get to. Not trying to do anything here other than slowing things down. We are not playing a 2001 server to have 2010 characters. We are playing it because we want to relive something. By making it slower can capping people down, you will see a much slower progression through the levels and nobody will simply 'run away' with their character and have an unfair advantage over others.

I am a hell of a leveler and know how to get someone up quick. Is that really fair? Should I have a level 126+ when everyone else is struggling at 75? That is what will happen and it will throw the server off.

Level 50 is a good balance point for almost all template types. You have some good and some bad things about your character. This would make things far more interesting.

On Temples

Although not in 2001, make sure that the Spec Dungeons are never implemented. They cause more trouble than they are worth.

On PK Weapons

You will need to really be careful with the PK suite of weapons. All loot gen weapons have a PK modifier on them. You can tweak this as needed. In 2001 it was hidden but any coding this will find it.

First gen hollows/Ravenous/Phantom/Weeping are all ok if the levels are set to 50.

No tinkering means that different rules apply.

On Balance

Everyone will need to agree on the balance of things.

Is it Mage>Melee>Archer>Mage?

Is it 1 mage can tank 5 people regardless of templates?

Only skill is a consideration?

If we do not agree then it will be up to personal interpretations and it could lead to a pretty boring server where mages are everywhere and there is 0 reason to play anything else.

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 17:10

Yeah see me and KS were discussing the white after death issue. I just dont think we need it. He does. I say if you get raped over and over at the LS you shoulda picked a more remote LS its your own fault.

Of course housing wont be in or the extra portals. As far as @wtfever yeah I dont want that shit in either. Lot of what you brought up is what we are doing. Im not sure about portal ties though.

Jida · 02-13-2010, 18:30

For the white discussion,... I am addressing anyone with an opposing viewpoint.

You will cheapen the experience for the players if you cave into their complaints. This is what started the downfall of DT.

The only reason why the white after death and LS protection rules were put in is due to NPK players complaining about LS circling on DT.

Anything that allows for someone to feel a sense of safety on any PK server starts a downpour of additional thoughts/requests/complaints.

If you go through the trouble to login just accept the fact that at anytime and in any place you can be attacked.

If you do not like this then do not login.

It is really that simple.

Safety on a PK server is nothing other than a crutch which destroys the spirit of the game. It rolls into a real 'why bother' mentality in time.

For the portaling, each portal has a number of characteristics that you can set,

1) No tie
2) No recall
3) No summon
4) Entry upon X criteria

If you set all portals by default to no tie/recall/summon then your job of manually switching the town loops is a much smaller task.

As stated, the logic for the portals is to give a risk to reward as well as keeping the community tighter.

If I run all the way out to AB to hunt the BSD then I went through the effort and risk to do so. If the portal there is no recall/tie/summon then I cannot use magic to get back there.

Since there would be no LS at AB I would have to run to town to restock/sell and then run back to the BSD.

Anyone that shows up there and kills me will send me to my mainland LS.

Same if I kill them.

The same areas where we ended up taking for granted will now become deeper and have more importance.

If you cap the levels to 50 then (as an example) maybe running out to that BSD will never happen. The loot is terrible and there are other places to level.

Maybe so though.

It would be up to people to decide what they want to do.

At level 50 you can go to AE and Caul. You can either keep or remove those recalls in the game. If you keep them then they are very valuable to have and people will work hard to get them. At level 50 a group will still have a rough time doing so.

Do you leave in Sanctuary Recall?

What about Mt Lethe?

All of these would need to be addressed individually.

Sith would be an issue at first for those that have compared to the ones that don't. It was a real imbalancer for mages to have in first since they could jump recall out at anytime.

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 18:30

that's the thing, if there's only a few ls's as jida explained then you're going to get ls camped (most likely circle jerked) until you either log out or shoot your monitor with a shotgun

or if the unlikely event that you can call up all your friends and get them on to help you fight, then that's an option too

you should be white for at least 10 seconds enough to recall away. there's no reason why if your ls is camped that you cannot even play the game for however long they want to camp the ls that just promotes being a pussy and rolling around in large groups

i'm still wondering if there is going to be timers on recalling, before it seemed people fought amazing odds because they always had the choice to recall out. now it seems people recall on sight of 2 or more people, it's not impossible to win 2v1 now but it's incredibly hard. it was easier before, but it may be people are just major vaginas today as well

Jida · 02-13-2010, 18:37

We all used to live with our LS's being camped.

What we used to do is login another character and play while @tell'ing the raiders.

I am not for the white status since what ends up happening is that fighting is really pointless. How do you effect someone if they just die, run past you and leave?

You chase them till they turn red? Ok, now they just recall out and leave you there.

I will be torqued when I get camped however I will also organize and do the same or switch back to hit and run like the old days.

LS camping will get people to ring up and try to get people but at the same time you can just waste their time by not being predictable and giving them any enjoyment out of it.

You also can't deny that if you finally camp someone else and loot something of value off them while they get pissed off that it would not make your day.

I got used to the recall timers and actually began to respect the decision to put them in. My issue with them on a low level 01' server though is that it would not be a great idea at first.

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 18:43

All of the original LS's are in so there are more than enough LS's. The thing that made it so fun back in the day was guilds defending their stones / towns.

One thing Id really like to get a discussion on would be level 6 jewelry. Back in the day it might have been gimp but everyone wanted level 6 jewelry. We arent going to have 7's so I would like to find a way to make level 6 jewelry uber again. Something almost everyone wants.

The only thing I see stopping this is the vuln other spells.

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 18:49

I didn't know you were going to have more than 1 char for some reason, how many did you start out with 5 was it? Should make it 3 max if it's possible, no point in having so many slots

1 mule, 1 main, 1 secondary main

Jida · 02-13-2010, 18:52

You started with 6 characters and then they went to 7.

6's are fine for low levels.

Will there be arcs and streaks? I doubt it if you are looking at 2001.

For the jewelry you can have 6's on them but you set the arcane levels high. If you want to use them then you have to do the tradeoff.

I totally forgot one other topic as well, bonded/attuned.

Remove it from the game entirely. Nothing should be safe from dropping. Just shut off that facet completely.

Unless there is a quest that I am not thinking of in 2001 that can be exploited, there is no reason why items should be attuned. Maybe there is a turn in for XP that a mule could exploit, not sure.

For the LS's, you will need to reduce them. There are at least 6 LS's in the Dires that I will use and I doubt you will ever see me till I want to be seen. That is not a good use of space. They need to be shutdown or removed.

Say there is 50 of us,... if we think that the LS's are going to be camped then everyone will try to find secret ones.

This is not to say that the Heb2 Sewers fights were not great fun,... that was about 300 people fighting over spots. Not a small population like we will probably have.

Back to the 6's on jewelry, I don't remember exactly when however Turbine took out the self vulns and the other spells which made no sense around 01'. Had to do with the OG macros where you could get to 20 just vulning yourself over and over.

Should not be an issue profiling the right spells on the right items.

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 18:56

you sure it was 6? i remember logging into a really old account a few years back and every server had only 5 chars created, if it started out as 6 then that wouldn't make sense

so shadow armor/atlans/hollows will drop? that would be funny, you'd have to think through the value on them though

i still remember the hollow quest being a bitch to do since armor al was so low that those rocks hit for mega damage. so that would be a bitch to lose and have to do that quest over again

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 19:10

Im not sure when or if hollows will be put in but it wont be right away. The melee dmg will be raised for balance so youre going to want some base AL. A melee with a nice sword or something will be able to cut you down pretty quickly in a robe. I would like to make hollows worthless. While still giving robes a use. Say newb mages would wear a robe for their beginning levels and be able to PVE with them or even PvP at really low levels. But if a level 30 - 50 melee runs up the mage runs for his life because of the dmg.

I wasnt asking how to implement jewelry its not a problem. What Im asking is how to make it useful. Back in the day people would go jewelry to not have to train life magic. I would like to see this again. And they would wear all specific armor to not have to train creature. But without vuln other they were kinda gimp in PvP but not PVE. So thats an issue. Jewelry should be in the game for a reason.

I dont think they should have ever needed to add majors etc..

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 19:15

also make it so every weapon is viable, only seeing ua'rs and dagger (this will happen since they're the cheapest (seeing as lvl 50 is the cap going sword is a waste) and best weapons) would be a drag

turbine added something called a lens in today's game and alchemy phials. the lens can imp targets but you need spec assess creature, and the alchemy phials vuln targets if you have alchemy trained (both have to be max for lvl 7 vulns) but this would probably be too much work

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 19:34

Yeah wont be any arcs. Streaks should be in those were old school I thought. I personally hated arcs. They were changing too many things around that time and I ended up quiting because of it.

Yeah the point is to make all weapons a viable option. Balance will be done and is quit easy to implement. We just need to do the testing.

Jida · 02-13-2010, 19:34

I think old school streaks blew ass and nobody used them. Walls and Rings came out in the AB days.

That is all post 01' tech though.

If we can pick and choose anything we want then the discussion will drastically change.

You have to make it so that the arcane level is close to the casting level.

You can learn your 5's pretty well at a 190 skill level.

For arcane you get focus/3. It has always been an issue to balance out arcane to the classes that need it and not force them to have a high focus.

Someone starting 10 focus will be able to get it to a base 120 around level 25-30 (depending upon their XP spendatures of course). That is an arcane score of only 40. Then you add in trained arcane which you can raise about 100 points in the same time frame. So a 140 base arcane for your 10 focus guy.

That is close to level 4's in casting and it matches up well with what is currently ingame. A few racial items help of course.

The issue now is how do you get to 225-275 arcane for those 6's?

The XP needed or the buffs you will need to get there will be pretty high.

Fstone + Brill + Arcane 6 + Focus 6.

It is possible of course but it is not easy to pull off.

Armor has 9 slots for spells and 1 for the shield. 5 slots for jewelry and 2 for clothing.

You can get away with no vulns if hollows are good enough however the complaint will be mindless melees hitting one button without any prep time.

For the nodrop discussion, if you do not limit bonded items then everyone will be in GSA + store bought gaunts/solls/helms in no time. Add in Knorr or something else and you are cookie cuttering the server pretty fast.

Like the old days of Matty+Leather+Noble Helm.

Everything should have the risk of dropping so that variety is running rampant.

If you do not make hollows worthwhile then all mages will stay in robes 100%. Store bought, cheap, no weight and easy baning.

200al + Unpar to physicals = 400al which is enough to stop untweaked melee/archer damage.

Speaking of spells, are you going to have the 'single spell to bane everything' function in AC now or will it be piece by piece? Will the timers be 15 minutes or 30 or 45?

Will vulns go away after death or stay on like they used to?

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 20:03

Well I know if you try and run around in a robe on the server today even without hollows you die very very quickly. I wasnt aware brilliance was in the game pre 2001? I dont remember the focusing stone being put in till like 2002. Im not sure about items dropped on death. Im all for making everything 10x more expensive though so money actually has value. I was a fan of the old drop on death system. I do not like random drop at all I think its retarded because you dont know whats going on. I rather it be highest value or everything. Btw nothing will be binded to your character. Maybe your starter weapon but thats it.

Jida · 02-13-2010, 20:10

Not sure on Fstone either, we can look it up on Maggies to get the dates on the older patches and what was added.

Robe today is because the AL is too low and they WAY upped the PK mod on loot gen items.

Used to be a negative modifier.

Tinkering also has a lot to do with it.

I remember being in AB attack Parabolic in a robe with my acid Atlan dagger (2-8 at the time) and all I could hit for was 0's with crits for 1.

No vulns on him.

With vulns it is still laughable compared to what war can do.

Thing is, if you tweak the weapons right then the issues go down however if you do it wrong then a gank of melees will kill everything out there without a shield.

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 20:40

focusing stone was in feb 2001

http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Lonely_in_the_World

use that site it's updated and a lot easier to navigate (than maggies)

are you going to have any weapons that go through shields like weeping? if you put in phantom then that's alright i guess. but i remember when there wasn't unenchantable shields and you could debuff someones shield to negative which would do even more damage when they had it out. then came caul and shen shields and threw that out the window

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 21:11

Well its basically the rules / items pre 2001 except we will make them work the way they were supposed to. Asses person or creature should have worked like anatomy. Where you get critical hit bonuses or something from using it.

PONKZLOL · 02-13-2010, 21:14

then there will be shen and caul shields but no phantom/weeping

Pimpin-Smurf · 02-13-2010, 21:21

We will all decide on the best route of things as long as the opinions dont go off into the 0.o sector. Ill be back working on this project in a couple of days Ive been playing MO. MO is an awesome game but because of the engine its going to be who has the best hacks not who has the most skill.

I will say this for maytag, speed hacking is quite obvious when viewing the server connections. Im not giving away how I know its there its just very very easy to fix. Its something MMO devs should have put to bed a very long time ago. When Im done with maytag if you turn on speed hacking it will just disconnect you from the game.

Jida · 02-14-2010, 12:16

We have a number of old complaints that were the causes of the 'fixes' in today.

A few of them,...

1) God Mode, are we keeping this in? If so then only expect to see mages.
2) Jump Spin, melees are worthless and since there is no jump timer there is 0 chance of a melee killing anyone.
3) Bow Bug, especially in towns this will be an issue.
4) Drain 1, without it being capped this will be an issue.
5) Shields, with no way to get past a shield, physical attacks will have no effect.
6) Slide Porting, start to cast a recall, slide into a portal and you pop into the portal for a split second. Just one of the many exploits you can do.
7) Duping, hate to say it but people are going to do it and crash the landblocks.
8) Jump logging, jump up and sith.
9) Etc.

There is a litany of issues from that time period where people were very frustrated with the game. People that played mages only look back on that time fondly.

Those that didn't play mages will have a different view.

Now this is not to say that it is unplayable, just putting some of this information out there to get your heads wrapped around the idea that it will have issues you may or may not want to deal with.

EDIT - Oh and I totally forgot the old XP chain system. You can plan on having people maxed out very quickly since it is super easy to exploit. My suggestion for this is to turn off all passup XP. All of it, not just from vassal to patron or anything else. If you are in a guild it is for identity, not for the XP.

02-13-2010, 15:36	#1 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	My suggestions. On Housing It should not be implemented or if the structures have to be there, lock them and make them inaccessible. Housing = safe spot, safe spots = bad. On Portaling Recalls need to be limited. Remove any @xxx command other than @lifestone. Remove or make inaccessible most of the landscape portals. Leave the town portal rings but nothing else. Take out most if not all of the random portals that take you around the map. You want to get there? Hoof it. Set every single dungeon to un-tieable. All of them, no tieing to dungeons. If you never have tied to any portals then you can use "Portal Recall" to get back to the last portal you entered (just like the old days) unless it is also set to "No Recall". Restrict the recall spells to "Lifestone Recall", "Portal Recall", "Summon Portal 1" and "Portal Tie". Only one of each. Remove all lifestones EXCEPT for the ones in towns. Remove the ones in AB, WeiJou, Teth, etc. No portal gems existed at this time so it is not an issue. The goal of this is to keep a very small population together and not spread out everywhere. If there are only a handful of lifestones and a few places you can port around to then people will interact far more often. Again, like the old days. On Safe Zones No timers at all. If you die you come back red, not white. There is no lifestone protection after you die. No portal timers. No housing or far away dungeons and lifestones to hide at. No 1,000 portals to everywhere, no recalls to everyplace. On Spells/Magic Split Pea did not ruin everything, it was Spilt Beans. The way the magic system worked was your taper rotation was based upon your Zone ID. Once this got out everyone had every spell. To eliminate or slow down the issue (since I am sure someone will tell someone else their rotation at some point) you create a long HEX cypher to act in the same way the Zone ID did back in the day. Research only, no scrolls. There were scrolls in the loot profile however you can either remove them or make them very rare. If you want the power then you have to put in the time. On Money Reduce all possible cash coming in by 1/10th and multiply the costs of things by 10x. Make money very important and not something we all end up taking for granted. Pyreals, even in the old days were easy enough to stay stocked up on. Money should also be heavy as well as notes. Not this weightless BS they did. On Levels Restrict the levels to 50 and make each level 5x as much XP to get to. Not trying to do anything here other than slowing things down. We are not playing a 2001 server to have 2010 characters. We are playing it because we want to relive something. By making it slower can capping people down, you will see a much slower progression through the levels and nobody will simply 'run away' with their character and have an unfair advantage over others. I am a hell of a leveler and know how to get someone up quick. Is that really fair? Should I have a level 126+ when everyone else is struggling at 75? That is what will happen and it will throw the server off. Level 50 is a good balance point for almost all template types. You have some good and some bad things about your character. This would make things far more interesting. On Temples Although not in 2001, make sure that the Spec Dungeons are never implemented. They cause more trouble than they are worth. On PK Weapons You will need to really be careful with the PK suite of weapons. All loot gen weapons have a PK modifier on them. You can tweak this as needed. In 2001 it was hidden but any coding this will find it. First gen hollows/Ravenous/Phantom/Weeping are all ok if the levels are set to 50. No tinkering means that different rules apply. On Balance Everyone will need to agree on the balance of things. Is it Mage>Melee>Archer>Mage? Is it 1 mage can tank 5 people regardless of templates? Only skill is a consideration? If we do not agree then it will be up to personal interpretations and it could lead to a pretty boring server where mages are everywhere and there is 0 reason to play anything else.

02-13-2010, 17:10	#2 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	Yeah see me and KS were discussing the white after death issue. I just dont think we need it. He does. I say if you get raped over and over at the LS you shoulda picked a more remote LS its your own fault. Of course housing wont be in or the extra portals. As far as @wtfever yeah I dont want that shit in either. Lot of what you brought up is what we are doing. Im not sure about portal ties though. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 18:30	#4 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	that's the thing, if there's only a few ls's as jida explained then you're going to get ls camped (most likely circle jerked) until you either log out or shoot your monitor with a shotgun or if the unlikely event that you can call up all your friends and get them on to help you fight, then that's an option too you should be white for at least 10 seconds enough to recall away. there's no reason why if your ls is camped that you cannot even play the game for however long they want to camp the ls that just promotes being a pussy and rolling around in large groups i'm still wondering if there is going to be timers on recalling, before it seemed people fought amazing odds because they always had the choice to recall out. now it seems people recall on sight of 2 or more people, it's not impossible to win 2v1 now but it's incredibly hard. it was easier before, but it may be people are just major vaginas today as well __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 18:43	#6 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	All of the original LS's are in so there are more than enough LS's. The thing that made it so fun back in the day was guilds defending their stones / towns. One thing Id really like to get a discussion on would be level 6 jewelry. Back in the day it might have been gimp but everyone wanted level 6 jewelry. We arent going to have 7's so I would like to find a way to make level 6 jewelry uber again. Something almost everyone wants. The only thing I see stopping this is the vuln other spells. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 18:49	#7 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	I didn't know you were going to have more than 1 char for some reason, how many did you start out with 5 was it? Should make it 3 max if it's possible, no point in having so many slots 1 mule, 1 main, 1 secondary main __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 18:30	#3 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	For the white discussion,... I am addressing anyone with an opposing viewpoint. You will cheapen the experience for the players if you cave into their complaints. This is what started the downfall of DT. The only reason why the white after death and LS protection rules were put in is due to NPK players complaining about LS circling on DT. Anything that allows for someone to feel a sense of safety on any PK server starts a downpour of additional thoughts/requests/complaints. If you go through the trouble to login just accept the fact that at anytime and in any place you can be attacked. If you do not like this then do not login. It is really that simple. Safety on a PK server is nothing other than a crutch which destroys the spirit of the game. It rolls into a real 'why bother' mentality in time. For the portaling, each portal has a number of characteristics that you can set, 1) No tie 2) No recall 3) No summon 4) Entry upon X criteria If you set all portals by default to no tie/recall/summon then your job of manually switching the town loops is a much smaller task. As stated, the logic for the portals is to give a risk to reward as well as keeping the community tighter. If I run all the way out to AB to hunt the BSD then I went through the effort and risk to do so. If the portal there is no recall/tie/summon then I cannot use magic to get back there. Since there would be no LS at AB I would have to run to town to restock/sell and then run back to the BSD. Anyone that shows up there and kills me will send me to my mainland LS. Same if I kill them. The same areas where we ended up taking for granted will now become deeper and have more importance. If you cap the levels to 50 then (as an example) maybe running out to that BSD will never happen. The loot is terrible and there are other places to level. Maybe so though. It would be up to people to decide what they want to do. At level 50 you can go to AE and Caul. You can either keep or remove those recalls in the game. If you keep them then they are very valuable to have and people will work hard to get them. At level 50 a group will still have a rough time doing so. Do you leave in Sanctuary Recall? What about Mt Lethe? All of these would need to be addressed individually. Sith would be an issue at first for those that have compared to the ones that don't. It was a real imbalancer for mages to have in first since they could jump recall out at anytime.

02-13-2010, 18:37	#5 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	We all used to live with our LS's being camped. What we used to do is login another character and play while @tell'ing the raiders. I am not for the white status since what ends up happening is that fighting is really pointless. How do you effect someone if they just die, run past you and leave? You chase them till they turn red? Ok, now they just recall out and leave you there. I will be torqued when I get camped however I will also organize and do the same or switch back to hit and run like the old days. LS camping will get people to ring up and try to get people but at the same time you can just waste their time by not being predictable and giving them any enjoyment out of it. You also can't deny that if you finally camp someone else and loot something of value off them while they get pissed off that it would not make your day. I got used to the recall timers and actually began to respect the decision to put them in. My issue with them on a low level 01' server though is that it would not be a great idea at first.

02-13-2010, 18:52	#8 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	You started with 6 characters and then they went to 7. 6's are fine for low levels. Will there be arcs and streaks? I doubt it if you are looking at 2001. For the jewelry you can have 6's on them but you set the arcane levels high. If you want to use them then you have to do the tradeoff. I totally forgot one other topic as well, bonded/attuned. Remove it from the game entirely. Nothing should be safe from dropping. Just shut off that facet completely. Unless there is a quest that I am not thinking of in 2001 that can be exploited, there is no reason why items should be attuned. Maybe there is a turn in for XP that a mule could exploit, not sure. For the LS's, you will need to reduce them. There are at least 6 LS's in the Dires that I will use and I doubt you will ever see me till I want to be seen. That is not a good use of space. They need to be shutdown or removed. Say there is 50 of us,... if we think that the LS's are going to be camped then everyone will try to find secret ones. This is not to say that the Heb2 Sewers fights were not great fun,... that was about 300 people fighting over spots. Not a small population like we will probably have. Back to the 6's on jewelry, I don't remember exactly when however Turbine took out the self vulns and the other spells which made no sense around 01'. Had to do with the OG macros where you could get to 20 just vulning yourself over and over. Should not be an issue profiling the right spells on the right items.

02-13-2010, 18:56	#9 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	you sure it was 6? i remember logging into a really old account a few years back and every server had only 5 chars created, if it started out as 6 then that wouldn't make sense so shadow armor/atlans/hollows will drop? that would be funny, you'd have to think through the value on them though i still remember the hollow quest being a bitch to do since armor al was so low that those rocks hit for mega damage. so that would be a bitch to lose and have to do that quest over again __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 19:10	#10 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	Im not sure when or if hollows will be put in but it wont be right away. The melee dmg will be raised for balance so youre going to want some base AL. A melee with a nice sword or something will be able to cut you down pretty quickly in a robe. I would like to make hollows worthless. While still giving robes a use. Say newb mages would wear a robe for their beginning levels and be able to PVE with them or even PvP at really low levels. But if a level 30 - 50 melee runs up the mage runs for his life because of the dmg. I wasnt asking how to implement jewelry its not a problem. What Im asking is how to make it useful. Back in the day people would go jewelry to not have to train life magic. I would like to see this again. And they would wear all specific armor to not have to train creature. But without vuln other they were kinda gimp in PvP but not PVE. So thats an issue. Jewelry should be in the game for a reason. I dont think they should have ever needed to add majors etc.. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 19:15	#11 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	also make it so every weapon is viable, only seeing ua'rs and dagger (this will happen since they're the cheapest (seeing as lvl 50 is the cap going sword is a waste) and best weapons) would be a drag turbine added something called a lens in today's game and alchemy phials. the lens can imp targets but you need spec assess creature, and the alchemy phials vuln targets if you have alchemy trained (both have to be max for lvl 7 vulns) but this would probably be too much work __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 19:34	#12 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	Yeah wont be any arcs. Streaks should be in those were old school I thought. I personally hated arcs. They were changing too many things around that time and I ended up quiting because of it. Yeah the point is to make all weapons a viable option. Balance will be done and is quit easy to implement. We just need to do the testing. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 19:34	#13 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	I think old school streaks blew ass and nobody used them. Walls and Rings came out in the AB days. That is all post 01' tech though. If we can pick and choose anything we want then the discussion will drastically change. You have to make it so that the arcane level is close to the casting level. You can learn your 5's pretty well at a 190 skill level. For arcane you get focus/3. It has always been an issue to balance out arcane to the classes that need it and not force them to have a high focus. Someone starting 10 focus will be able to get it to a base 120 around level 25-30 (depending upon their XP spendatures of course). That is an arcane score of only 40. Then you add in trained arcane which you can raise about 100 points in the same time frame. So a 140 base arcane for your 10 focus guy. That is close to level 4's in casting and it matches up well with what is currently ingame. A few racial items help of course. The issue now is how do you get to 225-275 arcane for those 6's? The XP needed or the buffs you will need to get there will be pretty high. Fstone + Brill + Arcane 6 + Focus 6. It is possible of course but it is not easy to pull off. Armor has 9 slots for spells and 1 for the shield. 5 slots for jewelry and 2 for clothing. You can get away with no vulns if hollows are good enough however the complaint will be mindless melees hitting one button without any prep time. For the nodrop discussion, if you do not limit bonded items then everyone will be in GSA + store bought gaunts/solls/helms in no time. Add in Knorr or something else and you are cookie cuttering the server pretty fast. Like the old days of Matty+Leather+Noble Helm. Everything should have the risk of dropping so that variety is running rampant. If you do not make hollows worthwhile then all mages will stay in robes 100%. Store bought, cheap, no weight and easy baning. 200al + Unpar to physicals = 400al which is enough to stop untweaked melee/archer damage. Speaking of spells, are you going to have the 'single spell to bane everything' function in AC now or will it be piece by piece? Will the timers be 15 minutes or 30 or 45? Will vulns go away after death or stay on like they used to? Last edited by Jida; 02-13-2010 at 19:37.

02-13-2010, 20:03	#14 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	Well I know if you try and run around in a robe on the server today even without hollows you die very very quickly. I wasnt aware brilliance was in the game pre 2001? I dont remember the focusing stone being put in till like 2002. Im not sure about items dropped on death. Im all for making everything 10x more expensive though so money actually has value. I was a fan of the old drop on death system. I do not like random drop at all I think its retarded because you dont know whats going on. I rather it be highest value or everything. Btw nothing will be binded to your character. Maybe your starter weapon but thats it. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 20:10	#15 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	Not sure on Fstone either, we can look it up on Maggies to get the dates on the older patches and what was added. Robe today is because the AL is too low and they WAY upped the PK mod on loot gen items. Used to be a negative modifier. Tinkering also has a lot to do with it. I remember being in AB attack Parabolic in a robe with my acid Atlan dagger (2-8 at the time) and all I could hit for was 0's with crits for 1. No vulns on him. With vulns it is still laughable compared to what war can do. Thing is, if you tweak the weapons right then the issues go down however if you do it wrong then a gank of melees will kill everything out there without a shield.

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02-13-2010, 20:40	#16 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	focusing stone was in feb 2001 http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Lonely_in_the_World use that site it's updated and a lot easier to navigate (than maggies) are you going to have any weapons that go through shields like weeping? if you put in phantom then that's alright i guess. but i remember when there wasn't unenchantable shields and you could debuff someones shield to negative which would do even more damage when they had it out. then came caul and shen shields and threw that out the window __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 21:11	#17 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	Well its basically the rules / items pre 2001 except we will make them work the way they were supposed to. Asses person or creature should have worked like anatomy. Where you get critical hit bonuses or something from using it. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-13-2010, 21:14	#18 (permalink)
PONKZLOL Kizuel is Madoshis Finest Join Date: May 2002 Location: roland garros Posts: 1,069	then there will be shen and caul shields but no phantom/weeping __________________ Grand Slam Tennis is amazing Was fun

02-13-2010, 21:21	#19 (permalink)
Pimpin-Smurf Battering Ram Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: With your mother. Posts: 4,136	We will all decide on the best route of things as long as the opinions dont go off into the 0.o sector. Ill be back working on this project in a couple of days Ive been playing MO. MO is an awesome game but because of the engine its going to be who has the best hacks not who has the most skill. I will say this for maytag, speed hacking is quite obvious when viewing the server connections. Im not giving away how I know its there its just very very easy to fix. Its something MMO devs should have put to bed a very long time ago. When Im done with maytag if you turn on speed hacking it will just disconnect you from the game. __________________ Sometimes I just want to kick babies.

02-14-2010, 12:16	#20 (permalink)
Jida +Adcock Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8,955	We have a number of old complaints that were the causes of the 'fixes' in today. A few of them,... 1) God Mode, are we keeping this in? If so then only expect to see mages. 2) Jump Spin, melees are worthless and since there is no jump timer there is 0 chance of a melee killing anyone. 3) Bow Bug, especially in towns this will be an issue. 4) Drain 1, without it being capped this will be an issue. 5) Shields, with no way to get past a shield, physical attacks will have no effect. 6) Slide Porting, start to cast a recall, slide into a portal and you pop into the portal for a split second. Just one of the many exploits you can do. 7) Duping, hate to say it but people are going to do it and crash the landblocks. 8) Jump logging, jump up and sith. 9) Etc. There is a litany of issues from that time period where people were very frustrated with the game. People that played mages only look back on that time fondly. Those that didn't play mages will have a different view. Now this is not to say that it is unplayable, just putting some of this information out there to get your heads wrapped around the idea that it will have issues you may or may not want to deal with. EDIT - Oh and I totally forgot the old XP chain system. You can plan on having people maxed out very quickly since it is super easy to exploit. My suggestion for this is to turn off all passup XP. All of it, not just from vassal to patron or anything else. If you are in a guild it is for identity, not for the XP. Last edited by Jida; 02-14-2010 at 12:21.